This week Shauna and Dan explore the phrase "when pigs fly". This one comes to English from Latin, and was quite a bit longer than the phrase we use today. Bonus: Reese's Peanut Butter Blobs and other holiday candy.
Bunny Trails: A Word History Podcast
Episode 224: When Pigs Fly
Record Date: February 11, 2024
Air Date: February 14, 2024
Intro
Shauna:
Welcome to Bunny Trails, a whimsical adventure of idioms and other turns of phrase.
I’m Shauna Harrison
Dan:
And I’m Dan Pugh
Each week we take an idiom or other turn of phrase and try to tell the story from its entry into the English language, to how it’s used today.
Opening Hook
If you are anywhere near my age, or just a fan of the long-running TV show The Simpsons, you probably remember this specific scene. This one comes from Episode 5 of Season 7 titled Lisa the Vegetarian. It aired in 1995 and guest-starred Paul McCartney and his then-wife Linda. There is a scene in which rich, evil Mr. Burns and his man-servant Smithers are both staring out the windows of Mr. Burns’ large office. The famously penny-pinching Mr. Burns comments that he will donate a million dollars to charity, and after a pause adds, “when pigs fly”. Laughing ensues when a pig goes flying across the skyline. The entire mood shifts and after a great comedic pause, Smithers asks Mr. Burns if he will be donating the money now. Mr. Burns, dejectedly, says “No, I don’t want to.” Thus ensuring Mr. Burns would make a large charitable contribution, figuratively, when pigs fly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2omx0uvl0WU
Meaning
According to the Merriam-Webster, when pigs fly is:
Quote
used to say that one thinks that something will never happen
End Quote
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/when%20pigs%20fly
This is similar to our phrase in episode 220, when hell freezes over.
Shauna, is this a phrase you use, or that someone in your life has used frequently?
Our first attestation comes to us from a 1581 translation of Haddon Against Jerome Osorius, Bishop of Silvane in Portingall and against his slanderous invectives. An Anywhere Apologeticall: For the necessary defense of the evangelical doctrine and veritie.
This was written by Walter Haddon and continued by John Foxe, then translated into English by James Bell.
Quote
But it is well yet, that for these lofty and rainbeaten piety tales you have promised us much more strong arguments and reasons, brighter (as you say) then the sun it feels on on midday, which you will so point our even to the view and beholding of our most gracious Queen: that at the twinkling of an eye we shall be able easily to decry the uncleaness, and wickedness of this forged religion: This is a great promise, my good Lord: But when will this be done: when pigges flye with their tayles forward…
End Quote
https://books.google.com/books?id=9sJoAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=pigges&f=false
So that’s not something I’ve heard with this phrase before… with tails forward. But it actually continues to be used alongside the phrase for a bit.
The most frequently cited origin is with lexicographer John Withals. And I found many websites, including Wikipedia, saying his 1616 Latin to English dictionary A Shorte Dictionarie for Yonge Begynners was the origin. Archive.org has several versions of John Withals dictionaries, starting in 1560. I went through several of them and the first time I found the phrase was in the 1616 version of A Dictionarie in English and Latine devised for the capacity of Children and young Beginners. I looked at the previous version available on Archive.org, the 1608 version, and the phrase was not in there. And this 1616 edition was updated by a Dr. Evans. So I just don’t find any evidence to credit John Withals with the phrase. And since this isn’t even the first time we see it in English, I wouldn’t credit Dr. Evans, either. But here is the entry for posterity’s sake:
Quote
Pigs fly in the ayre with their tayles forward
End Quote
https://archive.org/details/bim_early-english-books-1475-1640_a-dictionarie-in-english_withals-john_1616/page/582/mode/2up
Here is the 1670 work by John Ray, A Collection of English Proverbs.
This is filed under proverbial phrases and forms of speech that are not entire sentences and it is the 13th entry under P:
Quote
13: Pigs fly in the air with their tails forward.
End Quote
https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Collection_of_English_Proverbs/NhUsAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22pigs+fly%22&pg=PA189&printsec=frontcover
I checked the 1737 version of the same work and the entry was still there in its full glory. It was in the 1800s that we finally started seeing the phrase get shortened.
One of the more famous uses of the phrase, and one of the first where the phrase gets shortened, is in Lewis Carroll’s 1865 work, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.
Quote
“A cheap sort of present!” thought Alice. “I’m glad they don’t give birthday presents like that!” But she did not venture to say it out loud.
“Thinking again?” the Duchess asked, with another dig of her sharp little chin.
“I’ve a right to think,” said Alice sharply, for she was beginning to feel a little worried.
“Just about as much right,” said the Duchess, “as pigs have to fly…
End Quote
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/11/11-h/11-h.htm
If you want to hear about the history of Alice in Wonderland, then join us on Friday’s with the behind the scenes video where we will delve a little deeper into how children helped him write the story, and why Walt Disney was so adamant about making the film that brought the Alice to new generations.
Next up is an 1871 story Dene Hollow by Mrs. Henry Wood. In this scene, Drew is angry that Mary Barber is believing something that Drew thinks is impossible. Here is Mary Barber speaking:
Quote
“…I think it stands to reason it was that, and nought else, that startled Sir Dene’s horses. I should say the same thing startled Dobbin’s.”
“Why don’t you say as pig’s fly?” roared Drew.
“Because pigs don’t fly,” was the matter-of-fact answer
End Quote
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Dene_Hollow/fKMxAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22pigs+fly%22&pg=PA150&printsec=frontcover
The Evening Dispatch out of Provo, UT June 28, 1894.
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This circumstance is being used by the republican party as an argument in favor of the republican ticket to be voted for this fall, and against the democratic. It is possible that a majority of the good people of Utah are in favor of this heresy, this line of policy, and of placing this fair territory in the hands of the anarchists. We’ll believe it when pigs fly, but not until then.
End Quote
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn86091038/1894-06-28/ed-1/seq-2/#date1=1756&sort=date&date2=1963&searchType=advanced&language=&sequence=0&index=15&words=fly+pigs&proxdistance=5&rows=20&ortext=&proxtext=&phrasetext=%22pigs+fly%22&andtext=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1
So politics have been the same in the United States for almost all of its existence.
Here’s one out of the Rock Island Argus, Rock Island Illinois, USA, July 25, 1912. It also sounds like current day politics, but they were fighting against putting dams along the Mississippi river and other waterways. So at least it seems like they were fighting for a just cause.
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Representatives Rainey and Foster of Illinois have led the fight against the measures, which they declared were obnoxious and contrary to the public interest…
Both Rainey and Foster declare they will not compromise in the fight, but will fight every attempt to get the bill through.
“It will be passed when pigs fly.” said Rainey.
End Quote
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn92053934/1912-07-25/ed-1/seq-1/#date1=1756&index=0&rows=20&searchType=advanced&language=&sequence=0&words=fly+pigs&proxdistance=5&date2=1963&ortext=&proxtext=&phrasetext=%22pigs+fly%22&andtext=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1
Before we head to our modern uses, we need to say a huge thank you to those who make Bunny Trails possible.
A Quick Thank You
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Modern Uses
1993 Movie
We’ll start out in 1993 with the comedy film When Pigs Fly. It was directed by Sara Driver and stars Alfred Molina and Marianne Faithfull. Here is the synopsis from IMDb.com
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Marty (Alfred Molina) is a down-and-out jazz musician with colorful dreams of making it big, but right now he's living on the edge and making small money by giving music lessons to people who don't seem to want them.
End Quote
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108554/
1997 Book
When Pigs Fly is a 1997 novel by June Rae Wood. Here’s the synopsis from the publisher:
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Buddy's life has never been easy -- between caring for Reenie, her younger sister born with Down's Syndrome, and watching her parents struggle to pay the bills, she barely has time for normal teenage worries. But when her parents decide to sell their house and move the family to a dilapidated old farm, Buddy thinks pigs will fly before she's happy again. The old farmhouse, however, holds some surprising secrets that may make Buddy realize just how rich her family is.
End Quote
https://www.google.com/books/edition/When_Pigs_Fly/E-0LAAAACAAJ?hl=en
2007 Book
When Pigs Fly! is a 2007 book by Jane Killion. The tagline is Training Success With Impossible Dogs. Here is the synopsis from the publisher:
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Does your dog come when called, heel properly when you go for a walk, and sit quietly when you ask him to? If your answer is a resounding “No!” then you may think you have an impossible dog. But think again! Most kinds of dogs that people have trouble training (typically Hounds, Terriers, and some Northern Breeds) actually have many characteristics that make them quite trainable—they are smart, are good problem solvers, and have strong drives to get what they want.
End Quote
https://www.google.com/books/edition/When_Pigs_Fly/groWe2aUPBMC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22pigs+fly%22&printsec=frontcover
2010 Restaurant
When Pigs Fly! is a BBQ place in Wichita, Kansas. Here’s a quick paragraph from the about me page of their website. The folks mentioned in the paragraph are the owners, Brian and Kendra Choy.
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When the opportunity arose in 2009 to open a restaurant of their own, BBQ was where their hearts were at. They quit their jobs "Working For The Man" and began the journey down the When Pigs Fly road. There doubters, sure, but they didn't let that keep them down. One person even said that they wouldn't make it past their first year unless "Pigs Fly"......so the name took root.....and in October of 2010 The doors swung open and have been open every day since then!
End Quote
https://www.whenpigsflywichita.com/our-story
2013 Song
When Pigs Fly is a 2013 song by Sandra Boynton off the album Frog Trouble. I’ve mentioned Sandra Boynton on the show before because her book Moo, Baa, La La La! is one I read so many times to my kids that I still have it memorized. We’ll link to an animated version of the song, which features this lovely description:
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This short film, storyboarded and directed by Sandra Boynton, and wonderfully animated by Ira Baker, shows the gentle relationship between a parent and child (who both happen to be pigs.)
End Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffhSkKviw1I
Some of the singers on the album include Alison Kraus, Ben Folds, Brad Paisley, Darius Rucker, Dwight Yoakam, Kacey Musgraves, and Josh Turner.
2014 Song
Pigs Fly is a song by Tyler the Creator off the album Bastard. Here is the chorus:
Quote
The pigs fly away in the morning
But I ain't get to see you today
And if I want to go outside
I got to make sure that I can play here
I bet you've never seen a pig fly
Well you ain't been looking through my eyes
End Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbv7FVyPh3c
2021 Book
Batpig: When Pigs Fly is a 2021 graphic novel by Rob Harrell Here is the synopsis from the publisher:
Quote
Gary Yorkshire was your perfectly average, fuzzy pink pig who loved tasty sandwiches, video games, mud baths, and hanging out with his friends Carl the fish and Brooklyn the bat. Until one day . . . a radioactive bat bite gives him powers he never would have dreamed of! Inspired by his old Crimson Swine comics, Gary decides that he'll use his powers for good and becomes (drumroll) Batpig! Now he just needs a good zinger of a Batpig slogan, a spandex costume that flatters his rear end . . . and maybe a little advice about how in the world to defeat supervillains?
End Quote
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Batpig_When_Pigs_Fly/XMkTEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
If that wasn’t enough, following releases in the series are Batpig: Too Pig to Fail and Batpig: Go Pig or Go Home.
Wrap Up
I actually like this phrase. It is engaging in such extremes as to suggest impossibility to make its point, and I think there is value in using such simplistic terms to help someone understand your message. Other examples in English are “when hell freezes over” and “a snowball’s chance in hell”. We also say things like, “I’d rather die than do that thing” or “I’m so hungry I could eat a horse”. In Spanish, they also say “when pigs fly”, but another variation is “when cows fly”. And in Portuguese, they say “when hens grow teeth”. While I haven’t used “when pigs fly” in decades, it still has a following in English and other languages. So maybe I’ll try to get it back into my rotation and see how people respond.
Dan:
That’s about all we have for today. If you have any thoughts on the show, or pop culture references we should have included,
reach out to us on Patreon, patreon.com/bunnytrailspod or comment on our website bunnytrailspod.com
Shauna:
It’s poll time!
Recently we asked our Patrons, which seasonal candies do you buy every year?
The winner was Girl Scout Cookies, followed by Candy Corn, then Peeps and Candy Canes.
When Jan responded to which seasonal candies he likes, he said:
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All of it. I turn Peeps into s'mores, my daughter was a Girl Scout so even now we end up with cookies somehow, and the rest just happens because of Dillon's placement tactics I think.
End Quote
Dillons is the local Kroger chain in south central Kansas.
JGP shared,
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Half Price Candy Day (aka the day after Halloween, Christmas, Valentines' Day and Easter) is when I pick up my favorite seasonal candies - the random special "shaped" candy reese's peanut butter cups. Be it the blob that's supposed to be a pumpkin, the blob that's supposed to be a Christmas tree, the blob that's supposed to be a heart, or the blob that's supposed to be an Easter egg, it's always delicious.
End Quote
Dan:
Heather adds:
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I'm kind of addicted to Peeps, but only at Easter, not this new 'every holiday has to have a shape' thing. My Nana had a strange habit of opening the package early to get them a little stale, so that's my oddest candy fixation. Also as a former Girl Scout I always have to get a few boxes. Thin Mints are top, then anything peanut butter, but each year they come out with new interesting flavors.
End Quote
Shauna:
Apparently, I'm a holiday candy junkie. I buy the peeps - same as Heather, only at Easter - and the candy corn, only at Halloween. And candy canes, only at Christmas. I genuinely think they sound gross the rest of the year!
Dan:
My favorite seasonal candy is cadbury eggs at easter. Followed by queen anne cordial cherries during Christmas. And I do like the candy corn pumpkins, but I cannot buy them or I’ll eat the whole bag without realizing it. The peanut butter patties and thin mints from the Girl Scouts are not an every year thing, but I do buy a box every few years. And like JGP and Heather, I’m all in on the Reese’s peanut butter blobs.
As a reminder, our silly polls mean absolutely nothing and are not scientifically valid. But Patrons of all levels get to take part. Head over to patreon.com/bunnytrailspod to take this week’s poll!
Outro
Shauna:
Thanks for joining us. We’ll talk to you again next week. Until then remember,
Together:
Words belong to their users.
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