This week Shauna and Dan find out if you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. Bonus: Learning new languages, Riding narwhals, and Canada's No. 1 prospector
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Bunny Trails: A Word History Podcast
Episode 300: Catch More Flies With Honey Than Vinegar
Record Date: October 26, 2025
Air Date: November 5, 2025
Intro
Shauna:
Welcome to Bunny Trails, a whimsical adventure of idioms and other turns of phrase.
I’m Shauna Harrison
Dan:
And I’m Dan Pugh
Each week we take an idiom or other turn of phrase and try to tell the story from its entry into the English language, to how it’s used today.
Opening Hook
Have you ever seen someone trying to get another person to do something while being rude to the very person they’re asking for help? I feel like I see this all too often, especially in online conversations. Why insult someone when you’re also asking for their cooperation? Just be nice. Kindness is far more effective. It’s like the saying goes: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Meaning
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, To Catch More Flies with Honey Than Vinegar means:
Quote
It is more effective to be polite and ingratiating than to be hostile or demanding.
End Quote
https://www.oed.com/dictionary/honey_n?tab=meaning_and_use#308016401
I read somewhere that you can rule by fear, or you can rule by respect, but once you start ruling by fear you can never go back to ruling by respect. And I always felt like that was an extreme version of this type of phrase. More people will want to be around you if you are nice and polite than if you are angry and rude.
1624
We will start with an example in 1624. This comes from Middle French with the feast of St. Francis de Sales, later known as Bishop of Geneva, and even still later known as the Doctor of the Church and once more later known as the patron of the Catholic press and journalists.
For this one, please pardon my French, but in the literal way not the idiomatic way (See episode 110 for more on the idiom Pardon my French).
Here is the claim about this phrase,
Quote
According to the Louis de la Rivière in his Vie de saint François de Sales the doctor and bishop of Geneva of St. Francis de Sales told friend and prodigy Jean Pierre Camus, Bishop of Belley: “Soyez toujours le plus doux que vous pourrez, et souvenez-vous que l’on prends plus de mouches avec une cuillère de miel qu’avec cent barils de vinaigre…
Always be as gentle as you can and remember that one catches more flies with a spoonful of honey than with a hundred barrels of vinegar."
End Quote
https://wdtprs.com/2006/01/st-francis-de-sales-honey-and-vinegar/
I speak French like a child just learning to read. And not even a particularly gifted child.
So that is one origin, from the French language, being translated into English. We also see it used a few decades later in the Italian language.
1666
It is found in a proverb written in Giovanni Torriano’s A common place of Italian proverbs and proverbial phrases:
Quote
Il mele catta più mosche, che non fà l’aceto
End Quote
Which they say in the book translates to English as:
Quote
Honey gets more flyes to it, than doth vinegar
Quote
https://archive.org/details/bim_early-english-books-1641-1700_piazza-universale-di-pro_torriano-giovanni_1666/page/153/mode/2up?q=mosche
My Italian is as bad as my French. My apologies to both France and Italy. So we have two examples of the concept existing prior to the phrase entering English. Which makes sense, because we have known that flies are attracted to honey since before the common era, which is over a thousand years before English existed. One of Aesop’s Fables, which were written approximately 600 BCE, was about flies and honey and how they were attracted to its sweetness but then became stuck in the honey and were unable to fly away, thus perishing for their greed and overconsumption.
https://www.read.gov/aesop/127.html
So this phrase comes from a literal knowledge of flies being attracted to sweet things. And seeing it used in a figurative way in the 1600s in both Middle French and Italian just speaks to how old this phrase must be.
1732
We’ll fast forward a bit now to the phrase being used in English without being translated. This is from the work Gnomologia
Adagies and Proverbs; Wise Sentences and Witty Sayings, Ancient and Modern, Foreign and British, Volume 1 by Thomas Fuller. It is dated 1732.
Quote
3454 More Flies are taken with a Drop of Honey than a Tun of Vinegar
End Quote
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Gnomologia/3y8JAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Honey+gets+more+flies&pg=PA148&printsec=frontcover
1744
Next up is one of the common misinformation pieces of the internet. I found many locations citing Benjamin Franklin as the originator of this phrase, while others claim he was the first to use it in English. Clearly, neither of those things is true. Still, he did use the phrase and his popularity certainly couldn’t have hurt its spread. Here is an example from Poor Richard’s Almanack, the 1744 edition:
Quote
Tart Words make no Friends: a spoonful of honey will catch more flies than Gallon of Vinegar.
End Quote
http://vlib.us/amdocs/texts/prichard44.html
Like all of the Poor Richard’s Almanacks, this one is chock full of quotes. We’ll explore more of them in our behind the scenes video, which airs every Friday on our Patreon. That’s Patreon.com/bunnytrailspod.
1798
Here’s an example from the New and Complete Dictionary of the German and English Languages, composed mostly from the German Dictionaries of Mr. Adelung and Mr. Schwan. This is volume II, H through R, and is dated 1798. This entry has a German phrase, followed by its English equivalents.
Quote
Mit Glimpf richtet man mehr aus als mit harte
Mildness will go farther than Rigour; you’ll catch more Flies with Honey than with Vinegar
End Quote
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_New_and_Complete_Dictionary_of_the_G/oFDFXHlvtgAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22more+flies+with+honey%22&pg=PA50&printsec=frontcover
I wasn’t familiar with Glimpf as it doesn’t seem to appear in modern German, but it is an archaic middle high german word meaning favor, grace, or courteousness. And once again, apologies to all the Germanic speakers.
1847
Here’s an example from the Leicester Journal, England, dated March 12, 1847. In it, Mr. Winks - who has been defeated in his attempts to pass a resolution a number of times - tries to take on a different approach:
Quote
On Tuesday last, at the weekly meeting of the Board, there was a large attendance of members, in consequence of the hacknied and thrice-defeated motions of Mr. winks and Mr. Austin, being again about to be introduced for discussion - a discussion which has already become threadbare, and, no doubt, disgusting and heartsickening to our readers. After the usual preliminary business had been disposed of, Mr. Winks, in a smooth and “cunning” manner, and in the hope of catching more flies with honey than vinegar, brought forward his motion…
End Quote
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000205/18470312/012/0003
The tactic did not work. Despite appealing to some voters' senses by helping them, the masses were not fooled. The article goes on say Mr. Winks’ motion “was met with the defeat it so richly deserved”.
1899
This next one is from the Daily News out of Perth, Australia dated September 1, 1899. This is from a discussion on the railway system and the desire to reduce suburban fares.
Quote
After all there was a greater chance of catching more flies with honey than with vinegar, and there was a possibility of arriving at the ends they desired if they worked amicably together, and dealt with the subjects in a temperate way.
End Quote
https://newspaperarchive.com/perth-daily-news-sep-01-1899-p-4/
1915
Here is a joke republished in The Star-Independent out of Pennsylvania, USA dated May 14, 1915. It is a short piece making fun of the pure food law.
Quote
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
How about glucose as a substitute for honey? Are the flies all wised up on pure food products like everybody else? - Louisville Courier-Journal
End Quote
https://www.loc.gov/resource/sn86081330/1915-05-14/ed-1/?sp=8&q=%22more+flies+with+honey%22&r=-0.131,1.055,0.732,0.279,0
See, reposts were common even before computers. Though at least this once credited where they got it from. More than one might expect from Reddit.
1947
Here’s an example from Canada’s “No. 1 prospector” of the day, Viola MacMillan. This is from the Evening Star out of Washington, DC, USA dated October 5, 1947. This was quoted in a story about her and her move from law office stenographer to million-dollar miner. In it, they note her work in getting a Cabinet minister to take interest in a change to prospecting as the need for metals kept rising due to war efforts, but the number of men in the field kept decreasing for the same reason.
Quote
But the minister soon found out what prospectors who have worked in the field with the “queen bee,” as they call her, already knew: she’s as hard-headed in business as the shrewdest mining mogul you could find. Before she left Ottawa, Viola MacMillan had made the minister agree to go along with her program.
“I like a good fight as much as any of my men,” she admits, “but I’ve found that the old saying ‘you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar’ is true…”
End Quote
https://www.loc.gov/resource/sn83045462/1947-10-05/ed-1/?sp=99&q=%22more+flies+with+honey%22&r=0.373,0.982,0.776,0.296,0
1951
One more, and this is from the I Love Lucy show. It is the first episode of the first season of the long-running TV show. It was supposed to be the second episode, but some post-production issues meant this was the first official episode following the pilot. It’s called The Girls Want to Go to a Nightclub and it first aired October 15, 1951. It is Fred and Ethel’s anniversary and Ricky and Lucy are joining them. Fred and Ricky want to go to a prize fight, but Ethel and Lucy want to go to the Copacabana, a popular nightclub in town. Ethel thinks Lucy and Ricky can help her convince Fred, so she proposes the plan in the kitchen. But it instantly goes awry.
Quote
Lucy: Wrong, Ricky hates nightclubs.
Ethel: But he works in one. Your life should be just one gay round of nightclubs.
Yeah, that's what I thought when I married a bandleader, but ever since we said "I do" there are so many things we don't.
Well, it was a good idea while it lasted. Gee, it was going to be the Copacabana.
The Copacabana.
Uh-huh.
Gee! Well, don't you worry, we'll go!
We will?
Sure, I want to go as much as you do. But don't forget you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.
You mean, be nice to the boys?
Yeah, we'll be so lovey-dovey to them that they'll be sitting in a nightclub before they know what hit them.
Oh, that ought to do it.
End Quote
https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=i-love-lucy-1951&episode=s01e01
https://lucy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Girls_Want_to_Go_to_a_Nightclub
With that, it’s time to move to our more modern uses but first we need to say thank you to our sponsors.
A Quick Thank You
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Modern Uses
2005
We’ll start with a great earworm, One Chord Song by Stoney Larue. It is the 8th song off the aptly named The Red Dirt Album released in 2005. Our phrase is referenced in the opening stanza of the song:
Quote
My baby she talks softly
My baby she found out
You catch more flies with honey
More with a whisper than a shout
End Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U46llra0els
He doesn’t even use the full phrase here because you know exactly what he means when he says just the first part of it.
2009
For you fans of the TV show, Big Bang Theory, you may have heard the witty retort from Sheldon on this particular phrase. The episode is titled The Gotowitz Deviation, which is episode 3 of season 3, first airing October 3, 2009. In it Leonard uses our phrase to Sheldon:
Quote
Leonard: I'm just saying, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Sheldon: You catch even more with manure, what's your point?
End Quote
https://the-big-bang-theory.com/quotes/episode/303/The-Gothowitz-Deviation/
This is a perfect response for someone like Sheldon, who struggles with empathy, but has a genius level IQ. Which means idioms are often seen for the face-value of the words, not the meaning behind them. Beyond that, the subtext that makes this a great line for TV is that many people are attracted to the proverbial horse poop being sold by others. It’s not what Sheldon is saying, but it works well here because the viewer gets the meaning behind the joke.
2010
You Catch More Flies With Honey Than Vinegar is a song by Bleu off the 2010 album Four.
Quote
Fall
Like you never had to fall
Like you never had to greet the ground
Pound for pound
And crawl
Like you never had to crawl
Like you never had to scrape your knees
Oh, baby, please
And try not to be such a been there, done that
And try to look surprised when they yell, "Surprise"
'Cause we catch more flies with honey than vinegar
And sometimes it's nice to know what's behind the door
End Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpqltwlyDxk
2015
You Can Catch More Flies With Honey: The Art Of Rhetoric, Persuasion, Manipulation, and Blarney by Carolyn Franklin M.A. is a 2015 e-book. Here is the synopsis from the author:
Quote
When I was a child, my mother sang:
“’Won’t you come into my parlor,’ said the Spider to the Fly.
‘It’s the prettiest little parlor ever you did spy.’”
I’d picture the fly happily going into the “prettiest little parlor” where I supposed the spider and the fly sat down together for tea.
Are you a “fly”? This was my introduction to the art of persuasion. As the hapless fly, I’ve met many “spiders” and walked into many parlors. I’ve been surprised, shocked, comforted, scammed, deluded, used, betrayed and bullied in “parlors”. But, these “life lessons” I experienced from persuasion were prompted on my part by need, greed, loneliness or gullibility. I can’t necessarily blame the “spiders” if they caught a fly.
…
Persuading others is two-way communication - one side has the ability to say “yes” or “no”. Manipulating is negative in that the other person is trapped, deluded to some unsuspecting goal. But, we all manipulate at times – negative persuasion - so let’s understand what it is and how to do it well. Spiders and flies can cooperate - both sides can win.
End Quote
https://www.amazon.com/You-Catch-More-Flies-Honey-ebook/dp/B013P6T6SM
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/you-can-catch-more-flies-with-honey-carolyn-franklin-ma/1129512340
2025
This next one is an exhibition at the Whitechapel Gallery in London, England’s East-End. It is called Joy Gregory: Catching Flies with Honey. It runs October 8, 2025 - March 1, 2026. Here is the synopsis from the venue website:
Quote
Joy Gregory: Catching Flies with Honey, will be the first major survey show of the artist, Joy Gregory (b.1959, UK), winner of the eighth annual Freelands Award and one of the UK’s most innovative artists working with photography today.
Spanning four decades, this landmark exhibition brings together over 250 works encompassing photography, film, installation and textiles, all of which showcase and celebrate Gregory’s inventive, culturally resonant and materially rich practice. Since the early 1980s, Gregory has been a pioneering force in contemporary photography, playing a critical role in its development nationally and internationally.
Her work explores identity, history, race, gender and societal ideals of beauty, while expanding photography’s aesthetic and material possibilities. Gregory employs a diverse range of media and methods, encompassing Victorian photographic techniques such as cyanotypes and kallitypes, as well as digital media and performance. Conceptually rigorous and visually seductive, Gregory’s work invites important reflection on power structures, representation and cultural memory. The exhibition’s title comes from the proverb, ‘you catch more flies with honey than vinegar’, a phrase that Gregory’s mother used to say to her. It encapsulates her approach to art as political ‘with a small p’; her intimate, visually pleasurable and poetic works encouraging nuanced rather than polemical discussion.
End Quote
https://www.whitechapelgallery.org/exhibitions/joy-gregory-catching-flies-with-honey/
Wrap Up
I’ve always liked the positive message behind this phrase. It is, usually, better to be sweet than to be bitter. Of course, that’s not always true. Actually, it’s not even always true in a literal sense, either. Fruit flies, for example, are attracted to vinegar more than honey. So sometimes, being sweet just doesn’t work. You’ve got to be firm instead. That doesn’t mean being mean or harsh, but it does mean recognizing when kindness isn’t getting the job done. And that’s okay, too. I still try to start with kindness whenever I can, then adjust my approach if I need to.
Dan:
That’s about all we have for today. If you have any thoughts on the show, or pop culture references we should have included,
reach out to us on Patreon, patreon.com/bunnytrailspod or comment on our website bunnytrailspod.com
Shauna:
It’s poll time!
Recently, we posed this question to our patrons, how have you tried to learn another language?
The most common is language apps, like Babbel, Rosetta Stone, Duolingo, and others. School course work came in second, with consuming content in the language as third. Other options being tried are travel to where the language is spoken and practicing with a native speaker.
We also asked what languages our Patrons are learning.
Cheryl says:
Quote
I love learning languages. I'm studying French and Italian.
End Quote
Heather adds:
Quote
I would love to practice with native speakers one day, but I get tongue tied and everything goes right out of my head. My 698 day streak on Duolingo shows that gamification and the little ding of rewards really works for my brain. But for right now my best immersion is media - news, dramas, music, etc. I get most of my news in Spanish these days (a bonus is the lack of US perspectives), and watch and listen to lots of shows and music. I read a bit in Spanish and Korean, but it tires me out quick!
End Quote
Dan:
JGP says:
Quote
I am absolutely awful at languages but love trying to learn them anyway. I use a bunch of different apps but also watch shows and movies as well. There used to be a web browser extension that would let you have the subs for more than one language on at the same time when watching netflix or youtube and that was great, especially for learning to recognize short phrases. It stopped working but now sometimes I will pause and switch between the offered subs to try to figure out the specific words being said and how it might relate to the translated version the English subs provided. It can be very interesting, especially with other languages' idioms.
End Quote
For me I've been on-again, off-again with Spanish since 7th grade. I've tried Rosetta Stone, Duolingo, and Babbel over the last two decades, but my hearing loss makes even my native language difficult so I’ve always done better with reading non-native languages than speaking them. I do okay in Spanish speaking countries, but only if those I interact with are patient. I think the fact that I’m genuinely trying helps them feel more comfortable with me, and we laugh at my mistakes together, like when I ordered a burger in Costa Rica “sin lechuga y caballo” instead of “cebolla”, so I said I didn’t want any lettuce or horse on my burger. And if you are still listening, it means you stuck around after I mostly likely butchered 3 other languages in this episode, too, though I really did try.
Shauna:
Allan says:
Quote
I was in French immersion in school, did a certificate in teaching French immersion, and now I'm on the French Immersion sub list for the public schools in my city.
I also did Latin, German, Italian, and Spanish in university, which I can understand and speak to varying levels.
I tried to learn Romanian with Duolingo when I was working with a Romanian, but I gave up when it got stuck on the very beginning stuff. I'm not sure why, but it just kept giving me the same material over and over.
End Quote
And Dustin, with the sweetest meetcute, adds:
Quote
I learned Korean by living there and falling in love with my wife.
End Quote
As a reminder, our silly polls mean absolutely nothing and are not scientifically valid. And patrons of all levels, including our free tiers, can take part. Head over to patreon.com/bunnytrailspod to take this week’s poll!
Outro
Shauna:
Thanks for joining us. We’ll talk to you again next week. Until then remember,
Together:
Words belong to their users.
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