Wednesday, April 19, 2023

Episode 190: Know Him From Adam Show Notes

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Bunny Trails: A Word History Podcast

Episode 190: Know Them From Adam

Record Date: April 14, 2023

Air Date: April 19, 2023


Intro


Shauna:

Welcome to Bunny Trails, a whimsical adventure of idioms and other turns of phrase. 


I’m Shauna Harrison


Dan:

And I’m Dan Pugh


Each week we take an idiom or other turn of phrase and try to tell the story from its entry into the English language, to how it’s used today.



Opening Hook

Have you ever been in a public place, like a grocery store, and had someone start chatting you up. They are definitely talking to you like they know who you are, but you cannot for the life of you figure out why you should know this person. You might even say, you don’t know them from Adam. 



Meaning

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, to not know someone from Adam means:


Quote

not to know or recognize a person; to be unacquainted with.

End Quote

https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/2067?rskey=uRyd40&result=1#eid236502997 


My interest in doing this episode comes from some recent teaching I was doing. I was in Michigan doing a class and my co-instructor, whose name is Adam, made a little joke saying, “that person doesn’t know me from Adam”. He then giggled just a bit about it, which made me laugh. I wrote down the phrase in my little list. The next week, I was teaching the same class in Washington but with a different co-instructor. She used the phrase, “this guy didn’t know me from Eve”. And I thought it was an interesting turn on the phrase. So then I made a little note that this one was going to move to the top of my list because I found it very interesting. 


While I couldn’t find any evidence to suggest where this phrase comes from, most linguists suggest it likely comes from the christian mythos, specifically the Earth creation story of Adam, the first man, and Eve, the first woman.


Myth: A traditional story, typically involving supernatural beings or forces, which embodies and provides an explanation, aetiology, or justification for something such as the early history of a society, a religious belief or ritual, or a natural phenomenon. -Oxford English Dictionary

https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/124670?rskey=WTaLVq&result=1#eid 


Our friends at the A Way With Words radio show and podcast had this to say about it:


Quote

The phrase “I don’t know him from Adam” suggests that if the person were standing next to the person in Western tradition thought to be earliest human being, the two would be indistinguishable. The phrase “I don’t know her from Adam” can be used to refer to a woman who is similarly unrecognizable, but it’s less common.

End Quote

https://www.waywordradio.org/i-dont-know-him-from-adam/ 


As we will see, saying I don’t know her from Adam isn’t as rare as you might think. I found hundreds of examples in the newspapers through the Chronicling America site. Though as my fellow instructor modeled for me, one could also say, “I don’t know her from Eve”, referencing the first woman in that same creation story. And I found far more examples of that version than I expected. 


The first time I could find it in print was in 1750 in London’s Central Criminal Court documents for the trial of William Tidd and Anthony Bourne. One of their gang, William Hatton, testified against the men in their trial. These come to us from the Proceedings of the Old Bailey, 5 December 1750. 


The court documents show the two men, along with a few others who were not captured yet, robbed an old widow in her home in the middle of the night. 


In Mr. Hatton’s testimony, you’ll hear the word, prosecutrix, which in this case means a female victim of a crime on whose behalf the authorities are prosecuting the defendants. Here is Mr. Hatton:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prosecutrix


Quote

Anthony Bourne , William Tidd , Randolph Branch , Dick Pitt , James Webster , and myself, were going along Ailoff street on the 25th of July, betwixt six and seven in the evening, we saw a basket of linen in the prosecutrix's window; we made an attempt to take it by shoving the sash up, but could not get it; the woman came and took it away, so we concluded to go again between twelve and one at night, which we did, and Anthony Bourne wrenched the window shutter off, and got in; he had a tinder box and dark lanthorn and a pistol; Tidd went in also; the rest of us were at the door and the window…

End Quote


When asked about Hatton’s testimony, the defendants acted as if they had no idea what this guy was talking about. 


Tidd’s defense was:

I know nothing of it.


Bourne, speaking about Hatton, said:

I don't know that boy from Adam.


Both were found guilty and sentenced to death. 

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t17501205-19&div=t17501205-19&terms=from%20adam#highlight 


But in any case, it is clear this phrase was in use by a certain slang culture in 1750. Which means it was probably in use among many of the commoners of the day. 


Here’s another example from 1783 in The Dead Alive: A Comic Opera by John O’Keeffee, Esq. I will refrain from my normal pining to be an esquire as I know I’ve done it on the show before. Anyway, this is from a scene in Sir Walter Weathercock’s House. 


Motley: Take me! for as Jacques, the huntsman, says—"Motley's your only man."


Comfit: Who says so?


Motley: Jacques, in the play of "How d'ye like it."—There, where Harlequin Touchstone is—"Motley," says he, "is your only man," and he did not know me from Adam, only it came so apropos.


https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/ecco/004831921.0001.000?rgn=main;view=fulltext 



Here’s an example from  Charles Dickens in his work The old curiosity shop. The OED cites this phrase as being used in the 1841 first edition of this book. And I have no reason to disbelieve them. But I could not find an 1841 first edition to verify that from. So I’ll be reading the quote from the oldest I could find, an 1871 edition. And I’ll be trusting the OED that it was also in the 1841 edition, which again, I have no reason to doubt.


Quote



End Quote


Him


Her


Eve


Her


Him


Eve

This is from a review of the Paramount Pictures film “I Met Him In Paris” reviewed by Jimmy Starr, which he rated as excellent. (Start with right off the reel)


The entire review is written in that style and it is hilarious. We’ll revisit it in it’s fully glory in our Behind the Scenes section, available to all Patrons at any level at patreon.com/bunnytrailspod


Her


Here’s a fun one from 1955. 

End Quote


In addition to these examples using him and her from Adam and him from Eve, I saw numerous examples of “you from Adam”, “me from Adam”, and “them from Adam”. Kind of an any-pronoun-you-like phrase. 


One more thing before we jump to our modern uses, I want to mention the phrase “to not know a person from Adam’s off-ox”. This one is sometimes said to be a predecessor phrase, but I have my doubts. First, the phrase “Adam’s off-ox” seems to show up about 100 years later than our first example. But that isn’t proof, as new works are digitized all the time and even still it is difficult to know when slang languages finally ended up being written down. But a more likely reason is that “off” as a compound has been used since the 1500s without Adam being attached to it. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, “off” has a meaning:


Quote

Designating or relating to the right side of a horse, another animal, or a vehicle (opposed to the near side: see near adj. 3). Hence in compounds, as off horse (of a pair), off-foot, off-lead, off-leader, off-leg, off-ox (also figurative, a clumsy or stubborn person), off-wheel, off-wheeler.

End Quote

https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/130563#eid249611435


It is also the same root as off as in off-sides in sports like cricket. And is the origin of a pitch called the off-cutter, in which the ball moves to the off-side when pitched. It is now just shortened to cutter. In baseball, the term cutter is used as well, though it refers to the ball moving away from the pitcher’s arm side, rather than the batter. 


But back to off-ox, which the OED has examples of from as early as 1807. But the first time they have Adam’s off-ox is 1880. I found it in a newspaper from Ohio in 1871. But that’s a long way from 1750. The off-ox would have been the oxen in the yoke on the opposite side of the driver. Since off has been used in this way since the late 1500s, and it seems ox’s got added to off later, and Adam got added to off-ox later still, I would venture that this is more a meshing of phrases that were in use at the same time rather than off-ox being dropped to get to our phrase.

1807 Balance (Hudson, N.Y.) 25 Aug. 267 We behold a clumsy, awkward off ox trying the tricks of a kitten.

1871 Eaton Weekly Democrat (Eaton, OH), 24 Aug. Vol IV No 51 and men whom he did not know from Adam’s off ox

1880 Jackson Sentinel (Maquoketa, Iowa) 25 Mar. I didn't know him from Adam's off ox, on account of the ha'r on his face.



More about this one in our modern takes, right after we say thank you to our sponsors!


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Modern Uses


1946 Movie

Possibly the most commonly known, if not understood, usage of Adam’s Off-Ox comes to us from a 1946 movie. And that is when Nick the bartender is talking to George Bailey in It’s A Wonderful Life. Nick slams the bottle down on the counter and yells


                                     NICK

                         That does it! Out you two pixies go, 

                         through the door or out the window!


                                     GEORGE

                         Look, Nick. What's wrong?


                                     NICK

                              (angrily)

                         And that's another thing. Where do 

                         you come off calling me Nick?


                                     GEORGE

                         Well, Nick, that's your name, isn't 

                         it?


                                     NICK

                         What's that got to do with it? I 

                         don't know you from Adam's off ox.

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/wonderfullife.html 


Full disclosure. I’ve never actually seen the movie. I don’t celebrate Christmas and I’ve only seen a few Christmas movies and this isn’t one of them. Though I’m sure it’s a great flick. I usually watch Die Hard over the Winter, and now I’ll be adding the Ryan Reynolds and Will Farrell movie Spirited to the mix, but may never see the classic film It’s a Wonderful Life


2009 Song

The House That Built Me is a beautifully nostalgic song by Miranda Lambert off the 2009 album Revolution. It’s a tearjerker for anyone who is feeling homesick for a simpler time in their life, in this case her childhood. I don’t really have any desire to return to my childhood, but I can still understand the emptiness that can sometimes come with the passage of time as those we care about come into our lives, and then inevitably leave. Here is the opening verse and the chorus.


Quote

I know they say you can't go home again

I just had to come back one last time

Ma'am, I know you don't know me from Adam

But these hand prints on the front steps are mine


Up those stairs in that little back bedroom

Is where I did my homework and I learned to play guitar

And I bet you didn't know under that live oak

My favorite dog is buried in the yard


I thought if I could touch this place or feel it

This brokenness inside me might start healing

Out here, it's like I'm someone else

I thought that maybe I could find myself


If I could just come in, I swear I'll leave

Won't take nothin' but a memory

From the house that built me

End Quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQYNM6SjD_o



2018 Article

Let’s move to a 2018 article from It’s A Southern Thing, a website that produces blogs, merch, and short video clips with a humorous take on life in the Southern United States.


This is from an article by Haley Laurence called Why do we say, 'I don't know him from Adam's housecat'?  You may remember our 1908 example out of Mississippi that used this particular version of the phrase. And Mississippi is definitely in the US South. 


Quote

You know the situation. You're at the grocery store and someone comes up to you and starts talking and talking, asking about your mother and kids and how T-ball is going this year.


But you have absolutely no idea who it is. You're pretty convinced you've never seen this person before in your life. And when your grocery-shopping partner asks, "Who was that?" you just shrug and say, "I didn't know her from Adam's housecat."


Every Southerner knows that means, "I dunno who that is. Beats me!" But if you haven't spent a lot of time south of the Mason-Dixon line -- or with Southerners -- this may sound like crazy-talk to you.


And, hey, even when we stop and think about it, the phrase is a little perplexing. I mean, who is Adam's housecat? Is it a biblical reference? Is it something we missed in Sunday school? Or is it a really, really notable Southern feline? Why exactly do we say this?


Well, it turns out, there is a reason we say it -- kind of.


According to author Robert Hendrickson, who has written a dozen of books about why we talk the way we do, we Southerners just took a previously-known phrase and made it our own.


In "The Facts on File Dictionary of American Regionalisms," Hendrickson says that the phrase "is an attempt to improve upon 'I wouldn't know him from Adam's off ox' (referring to the 'off' ox in the yoke farthest away from the driver), which in turn is a variation of 'I wouldn't know him from Adam.'"


We think Southerners improved upon the original phrase, and Hendrickson appears to think the same way. "Hardly anyone drives oxen these days and, as more than one humorist has observed, Adam had no navel, wore only a fig leaf at most and would have been fairly easy to recognize."

End Quote

https://www.southernthing.com/adams-housecat-2544970901.html 


So there is Robert Hendrickson, noting the house cat variety is likely a play on the off-ox variety. 


2018 Song

Also from 2018, I Don’t Know You From Adam is a 48 second instrumental track by Matt Read on the Original Motion Picture Soundtrack for the comedy Nana’s Secret Recipe. Here’s the quick synopsis from imdb.com


Quote

Five longtime girlfriends get into the edibles business selling pot desserts after they all lose their retirement savings in a Ponzi scheme.

End Quote


As the title suggests, all five of these lovely ladies are grandmotherly in their 1950s pink diner garb on the movie cover. One is holding an apple pie but instead of a cross baked into it, it’s a cannabis leaf. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqfx_7pu2q8

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7238846/ 


2020 Song

I Don’t Know You From Adam’s Off Ox is a song by David Goyette off the 2020 album Smoking Colors. It’s kind of a grungy rock. It doesn’t actually use the phrase in the song, but here is the chorus.


Quote

You found the river; you jumped right in

Didn't look at the shore or even try to swim

And now it's over cause I can't float

Drown or drink or drive a boat

So drift away, I 'll see you someday

When I can find a way

End Quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTfwkKcRdao 


2021 Song

Fill Them Boots is a Country song by Chris Lane off the 2021 album of the same name. Our phrase pops up in the chorus. 


Quote

Girl, it's time to move on, scoot on over

You lookin' like a-you could use a brand new shoulder

Let your heartbreak, take a holiday

For a song or a drink or two anyways

I don't know him from Adam

But I'm kinda mad at him for the way he did you

Yeah, I can fill 'em boots, I can fill 'em boots

I can fill them boots if you want me to

End Quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF4TkFOI29c


Wrap Up

I don’t really use this phrase, but I do like it. It’s an interesting way to say you have no idea who that person is. And I feel that. When I worked in the government, local people saw me on the news quite a bit. And now I teach people in my industry all over the Country. So when I run into someone who knows me from one of those places, I don’t always remember or even know them. But they seem to know me. I’ve gotten pretty good at acting like we haven’t seen each other in a while, even though I really don’t know them from Adam, Eve, or any of their oxen or housecats. 


Dan:

That’s about all we have for today. If you have any thoughts on the show, or pop culture references we should have included, reach out to us at bunnytrailspod@gmail.com, or comment on our website bunnytrailspod.com


Shauna:

It’s poll time!


Recently, we told our Patrons, 


It's cold outside. Real cold. Chili or Soup?


With 67%, the winner was <drumroll please>


Chili!


Dan:

I love chili, but sometimes I don't love the heartburn that can come with tomato-based dishes, so I was in the minority that opted for soup. I love a simple chicken noodle soup. But I'll eat probably 75% of the soup products by Campbells, Progresso, and Swanson. So I'm not terribly picky. But a home-made chicken noodle is sooo good. 


Shauna: 

Jan said:


Quote

Chili with a cinnamon roll on the side. 

End Quote


I personally love all foods that come in a bowl. Soup, stew, chili, gumbo. All of it.


As a reminder, our silly polls mean absolutely nothing and are not scientifically valid. But Patrons of all levels get to take part. Head over to patreon.com/bunnytrailspod to take this week’s poll!


Outro 


Shauna:

Thanks for joining us. We’ll talk to you again next week. Until then remember, 


Together:

Words belong to their users. 

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