Wednesday, September 25, 2019

Episode 62: Tip of the Iceberg Transcript

Click on “Read More” for the full transcript.

We used Temi to auto transcribe this, then Dan went through and checked it based on the show notes. He tried really hard on it, but this kind of stuff isn't his specialty. So if you notice anything confusing, please comment on this post so Dan can look at it and clarify anything.

Dan:                                     00:00                    Welcome to Bunny Trails, a whimsical adventure of idioms and other turns of phrase. I'm Dan Pugh.
Shauna:                               00:05                    And I'm Shauna Harrison. Each week we delve into the origin and history of an idiom or other turn of phrase and discuss how it's been used over time. Between our weekly episodes, bonus mini episodes - which are available through Patreon - guests spots, and specials we've discussed over a hundred idioms or other turns of phrase. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It's amazing how many English idioms exist.
Dan:                                     00:29                    Yeah, it is amazing. There are way more of them, too. We find new ones every day, but now I'm curious. 100 idioms... That does seem like a lot. Did you count them all?
Shauna:                               00:40                    Uh, no. Um, that's like a rough guesstimate. Like a, like an ish, an ish number. But anyway, on the topic of icebergs... see I was so smooth with that one that you didn't even notice it.
Dan:                                     00:56                    I noticed it.
Shauna:                               00:58                    Dang it. So tip of the iceberg means that we are just barely scratching the surface of something. We're only getting started. We've got a long way to go. Taking our first step.
Dan:                                     01:10                    Okay. Yeah, I get it.
Shauna:                               01:11                    I was done. I'll stop. Uh, many dictionaries online have tip of the iceberg defined as being "aware of only a small part of a much bigger thing". And usually they're referring to something negative, like a problem or an issue. And, uh, but in education and professional development circles this phrase is often used to represent all sorts of concepts and um, such as how much one person can learn about a subject. And uh, there'll be a little bit more on that later on. So, Dan, if you were to guess, how old would you think today's idiom is?
Dan:                                     01:48                    Okay. So it has to be at least older than the early 19 hundreds, because we knew it was an iceberg that hit the Titanic, right?
Shauna:                               01:56                    We did, yes.
Dan:                                     01:58                    Okay. So, and there have been icebergs for way earlier than human history, but the phrase, the word probably would've come into existence pretty early. So 18, seven, no, 1817.
Shauna:                               02:19                    You're off a little, but
Dan:                                     02:23                    I was going to say 1876. But is that closer or further away?
Shauna:                               02:28                    That's much closer. So that first little instinct that you had about the Titanic.
Dan:                                     02:35                    Yeah, that's the most famous iceberg in history, I think.
Shauna:                               02:37                    It is. It is. Um, but so we knew that we had the word for iceberg right already, but the, the phrase tip of the iceberg I really came about at that time. So.
Dan:                                     02:47                    Really?
Shauna:                               02:48                    Yeah, in early 19 hundreds. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, Oxford English dictionary, it gives us an additional addendum to the definition for tip of the iceberg, which says "in extended use, something of which the greater part is unknown or unrecognized, chiefly in the tip of the iceberg and variants, the smaller perceptible part of something, especially a difficulty, which is evidently much larger."
Dan:                                     03:18                    So, so it's the, the smaller portion that you can see of a bigger problem?
Shauna:                               03:23                    Or challenge. And then, uh, they even ref, they even specify "in early use, perhaps partly motivated by awareness of the sinking of the RMS Titanic when it was holed between the waterline in a collision with an iceberg in 1912."
Dan:                                     03:40                    Well, I guess if it was just the tip that was out then maybe, maybe you wouldn't have seen it.
Shauna:                               03:45                    Phrasing
Dan:                                     03:46                    Phrasing. Are we not doing phrasing anymore?
Shauna:                               03:49                    I thought we'd make it further into this one before you said 'just the tip'.
Dan:                                     03:53                    Before I 'just the tipped'? Come on, how long have we known each other?
Shauna:                               03:56                    Yeah, that's true. All right, so before we get started on the idiom though, I wanted to take just a little tiny brief, a sidebar to talk about the Titanic, which I thought, you know, I could sing a song cause it's a great movie and
Dan:                                     04:12                    Oh, I actually, no, I was, that's because I have 1. Never seen the movie Titanic, me and three other humans on the face of the planet. And 2. I was trying to think of a song about the Titanic and nothing was coming to mind. But then when you said the movie, then I realized you were talking about a Celine Dion song.
Shauna:                               04:32                    Yeah, I was, I was going to go back to the, to the song about the Titanic concept because I had a history teacher in high school that totally had these random songs about like different things that happened in history and I'm pretty sure he just wrote them like on his own. I don't think there were any kind of, you know, it wasn't conjunction junction or anything like that. Like he just randomly...
Dan:                                     04:50                    Wait... So you're telling me you really were thinking about a song about the Titanic?
Shauna:                               04:54                    No, not at all. But when you said that that's what I remembered was like my high school history teacher. He was awesome.
Dan:                                     05:01                    I was going to say, sounds like you had a pretty good one. Maybe. Wait, was your high school history teacher also one of the guys from the Cutting Class Podcast?
Shauna:                               05:10                    No, how cool would that be?
Dan:                                     05:10                    Cause their both high school teachers. That would have been really cool. I would have given anything. Well I didn't go to high school, but if I was going to go to high school I would have loved for it to be with those guys.
Shauna:                               05:20                    That's hilarious. I loved high school. Alright, so we're not going to sing a song, but I did want to share that. It's actually a really cool that this idiom was popularized by that by the thing that people kind of think of first when they hear the idiom, uh, or at least people who are familiar with the history and have that knowledge base to pull from. Uh, but it's, it's quite possible and likely that this is where it originated. I was with the sinking of the Titanic. I also learned a cool little thing while I was researching, which is that the iceberg that hit the Titanic or that the Titanic hit, uh, died itself, It melted away only like two weeks after the Titanic sank.
Dan:                                     06:03                    Oh, that makes me sad.
Shauna:                               06:03                    So it was a mutual death there.
Dan:                                     06:07                    I'm on a bunny trail off for just a moment because I'm currently in Maryland. I am working on a rewrite of a national course for emergency managers called the science of disasters. And today we were having the conversation about terminology and what we, what we need to do. And somebody like the word climate change is listed in there, but it's listed in the, in the wrong way in one of the things. And we're not, of course we're not trying to shy away from that at all, but the, there was a point where it used climate change where it was talking about weather changes and climate is a longterm thing whereas weather is a short term thing. So one, so then somebody else asked what, what about the icebergs melting? And another person not missing a beat said "all of the glacier water is just falling off the side of the planet. So it's not a big deal."
Shauna:                               06:58                    Oh that's awesome.
Dan:                                     07:01                    And I thought what a great response. Like he didn't even skip a beat as he said it. Like just so matter of fact I couldn't stop laughing about it cause I just had the conversation like two hours ago now. But it is sad that, that it is sad that that iceberg died. I guess if, if you could attribute, if we could attribute life to it in the first place.
Shauna:                               07:20                    Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, the way that it was talked about in the story is... regarding the Titanic. It sounds like it was a beast, you know, from hell or something.
Dan:                                     07:33                    Well, yes, that's because as humans we like for there to be a good guy and a bad guy. And for our narratives that makes things much easier. And so I think iceberg in this case was the bad guy because we needed a bad guy to tell a good story. And unfortunately the truth resist simplicity. So that's not something that we, we don't always have a bad guy. In fact, most of the time we don't have a bad guy. It's just people doing what they think is best. We just come from different places.
Shauna:                               08:01                    Yeah. Dude, that was deep.
Dan:                                     08:03                    Yeah, way too deep.
Shauna:                               08:04                    Really.
Dan:                                     08:05                    Let's move on.
Shauna:                               08:05                    Right. So icebergs, uh, but part of that, you know, I think is also contributed to why the phrase has been used negatively for the most part is that desire for the iceberg to have been in the wrong, in that situation with the Titanic. So there was another phrase using iceberg that was in use shortly before the Titanic sank. Here is a quote from the Manchester Democrat from Manchester, Iowa, a newspaper. Uh, this is June 14th in 1899 "Then the advertising man knows that his vis-a-vis never advertised in his life, knows nothing about it, and he realizes that he is up against an iceberg. He has perhaps felt when he entered that particular store that the atmosphere was frozen hard."
Dan:                                     08:51                    So even in 1899, iceberg could a large immovable object or potentially a difficulty or challenge.
Shauna:                               09:01                    Yeah, it was usually used more to reference a challenge as opposed to anything else and not even, and not necessarily negative, but also just the immensity. Immensity? Immenseness?
Dan:                                     09:12                    I think immensity is fine, even if it's not a word. I like it. So let's, let's do it.
Shauna:                               09:16                    Yeah.
Dan:                                     09:16                    We'll make it trend and then they'll have to add it to the dictionary.
Shauna:                               09:20                    Bam. I like it.
Dan:                                     09:20                    Because dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. I'm getting off of my soapbox now. Anyway. Go ahead.
Shauna:                               09:26                    Uh, thank you. This has been dictionaries with Dan, so I'm really excited to go through this.
Dan:                                     09:31                    That's... wait... No go back. Dictionaries with Dan. I'm loving this segment. I don't know what we do. We can't just read a random word from the dictionary because Helen Zaltzman already does that on The Allusionist Podcast. We'd have to find some other thing for dictionaries with Dan. So listeners, if you have an idea for what to do with dictionaries with Dan, then please let me know.
Shauna:                               09:51                    New segment. I love it. I am really excited to go through this one. Most of our phrases were kind of trying to piece together, uh, the transition or where they started and all these things and where you or piecing together the information that we find and with this one where we get to see just those changes in a shorter period of time, which was kind of cool. In 1916, AJ Todd, uh, wrote in American Journal of Sociology, "We have to recognize that after all reason in men is only the very tip of their iceberg of mental life."
Shauna:                               10:23                    I thought that was kind of...
Dan:                                     10:25                    What are they trying to say there? Are they saying that men are deeper than reason or reason is, I don't know what they're trying to say.
Shauna:                               10:33                    Well, so this was sociology. So sociologists like to talk about the impact of relationships and these other things that, that exist within a society, right? So it's not just reason that dictates a human beings and their, their thoughts or their mental life is expansive beyond not necessarily more than or deeper or whatever.
Dan:                                     10:54                    That makes sense. Yeah. This has been Sociology was Shauna.
Shauna:                               10:58                    Sociology was Shauna. Oh, that also is alliterative. We're doing, we're like rocking it today with that.
Dan:                                     11:04                    That's right. Alliterations abounds today,
Shauna:                               11:07                    As is the case for many idioms. This early usage had a quantifier added to the phrase, uh, so in this one it was 'mental life'.
Dan:                                     11:15                    So like tip of tip of the iceberg of mental life or tip of the iceberg of Kleenex boxes.
Shauna:                               11:21                    Yes. Or sometimes there's a...
Dan:                                     11:23                    There's a Kleenex brand tissue box right in front of me. So I, that's what I went with.
Shauna:                               11:27                    You're on that one.
Dan:                                     11:28                    I love lamp.
Shauna:                               11:28                    In 1917, The Origin of Evil by Chuck Missler. Uh, he was a doctor. Apologies, Doctor Missler. Uh, so in this book, Dr Missler uses the scripture, ie verses from the Christian Bible, to explore the idea of evil and its origin. He says, "Paul wants his readers to comprehend the breadth, the length, the depth, and the height. He lists four dimensions. These words in the Greek are: Platos, Mekos, Bathos, and Hupsos."
Shauna:                               11:59                    I just love Greek words. I wish I could speak Greek. I said that whole part just because I wanted to do that. So we can...
Dan:                                     12:06                    Platos meaning breadth, Mekos meaning length, Bathos meaning deep or depths, and hupsos meaning height or heavenly. I do not speak Greek, so I apologize if I have mispronounced any of those words.
Shauna:                               12:20                    He continues to say, "We can argue that all additional dimensions are included in that fourth term in the broadness of the heights of heaven. We can see the breadth, length, and depth of things, but all others are in the spiritual realms. The word hupsos has its roots in the word 'huper' from which we get our word 'hyper'. So it's appropriate that these additional dimensions are called hyperspaces. What is really real? We only directly experience the tip of the iceberg."
Dan:                                     12:53                    This is, this is blowing my mind that he just used the word hyperspace there in what, 1917?
Shauna:                               12:59                    Yeah, it's awesome. Ah, I love it. And he did not mean he did not mean that physically or any kind of scientific way. He meant it, you know, spiritually. Very cool. I thought I liked, liked that, uh, writing even if, I'm not sure I would want to read the rest of his book.
Dan:                                     13:19                    Right. So the, the Titanic sank in 1912, right?
Shauna:                               13:23                    Yes.
Dan:                                     13:24                    Okay. So this is 1917. All right, got it.
Shauna:                               13:26                    So we're this close to that event and the idiom was used in this case as an explanation rather than with an explanation for it. And that indicates that it was relatively, um, widely used at the time. And so it was understood by the public. In 1938 in the Journal of Higher Education, "The president sees the glowing sunlit tip of the iceberg. Only the alumni secretary senses the chill of its huge and submerged segment."
Shauna:                               13:52                    I dunno what was going on in that school, but my goodness, they got some problems I think.
Dan:                                     14:02                    I think the point is that oftentimes secretaries of any form have a better understanding of what is happening in the organization than the C suite level person or supervisor that they assist.
Shauna:                               14:15                    Yes, definitely. Uh, and so in this case, the author did provide that elaboration, but I think it was used to be descriptive and kind of have that, that imagery going. In 1942 Douglas Woodruff For Hilaire Belloc, "The iceberg of existence is vaster, by many times in its hidden bulk, than what appears on the mid-day ocean."
Shauna:                               14:40                    So again, with the imagery,
Dan:                                     14:42                    Wow, I don't know if I'm just in a romantic language kind of mood or if all of these phrases or these quotes are just really well written and good.
Shauna:                               14:51                    Uh, no, I've really enjoyed them. I they, I was like, man, this is so poetic. This is like the most poetic idiom we've researched.
Dan:                                     14:59                    It's amazing. Amazing imagery.
Shauna:                               15:03                    Yes. In the evening star out of Washington, D C August 3rd, 1944 .The title of this was Shifting Finland, "The sudden appearance of Field Marshall Baron Mannerheim as emergency president of Finland is the visible phase of a political and diplomatic situation, which for the most part remains obscure. Mannerheim's presidency at this juncture, may be compared to the tip of an iceberg, seven-eighths of which is hidden below the surface of the water wherein it floats."
Shauna:                               15:33                    There are some serious political stuff's going on in, you know, Finland 1944. Pretty much everywhere actually at that point.
Dan:                                     15:43                    Did you know that Your Brain on Facts Podcast had a guest podcasts on, and I forget the name so I apologize, but they did an episode or talked at least a little bit about Finland not really existing because there's this conspiracy theory that Finland doesn't actually exist.
Shauna:                               16:02                    Mmm, that's good.
Dan:                                     16:03                    That's very interesting. It has nothing to do with icebergs or the tip of an iceberg. I just thought that was interesting cause you said there are a lot of interesting things going on with the Finnish government and I thought, huh, or if it's even there.
Shauna:                               16:16                    Mmm, true. But I was just, uh, making that assumption cause it was 1944 so I think there was a lot of political stuff going on everywhere.
Dan:                                     16:24                    Ooh, good point. Yeah. That's a timeline, especially for Europe, where they were a smidge bit busy.
Shauna:                               16:28                    Yeah. Just a little bit. So, all right. 1964. This is the Observer. July 26th, "This..situation is illustrated by what is..called the iceberg of disease. Above the surface is the illness we know about."
Shauna:                               16:46                    Sounds very daunting. See, I'm, I'm, I'm going with this as continues to be poetic, even if I don't know what they're talking about. So, uh, but this, at this point, the idiom wasn't really used as, as a phrase as a whole, but the concept was present. So they still said the iceberg of disease. So they changed the idiom at this at this time. So you're starting to see it kind of used very freely by authors or writers who are here, kind of adapting it for their own use in and putting a spin on it, which we see happen once it's very firmly established in the lexicon. 1965 just a year later, this is from the Congressional Record from the (United States) Senate and this discussion occurred on May 12th of 1965. And this was under the group of discussions for senior citizen month. So May, at least it was in 1965, was senior citizen month. Get ready for it next year. Uh, the portion of this quote comes from a discussion, The Unmet Need. "Even before referral had completed its three month pilot period last September, Kathleen Marrow, center director, said, 'we have seen the tip of the iceberg that tells us there are countless other aging people involved in a grim survival where the supportive and protective help of the community is required.' "
Dan:                                     18:10                    Oh, yet again, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Shauna:                               18:13                    Right? Uh, so I thought that was an interesting thing that it was used there but also in a, you know, official discussion. Moving down the road a little bit in 1987, Ian Rankin in Knots and Crosses. This is a, a book that recently, uh, became popular again. I know it was on the list for Emma Watson's reading group that's on Goodreads and I think it was turned into a movie but I don't follow movies very well. So could it be wrong about that. "He did some bouncing for pubs on Lothian Road and dubious drinking-dens around Leith, but that would be the tip of his earning iceberg. "
Dan:                                     18:53                    So that one has a modifier to it as well. In this case earning iceberg.
Shauna:                               18:57                    It does. We, we like to play it a little loose and fast with our phrases in the United States.
Dan:                                     19:03                    Isn't the phrase fast and loose?
Shauna:                               19:04                    Maybe.
Dan:                                     19:04                    Or were you just playing, are you playing fast and loose with your phrase right there and highlighting your points? Man, you are so meta. Oh good.
Shauna:                               19:15                    I'm intentionally, so smooth. But we do it, we do that. We add extra words or we change the order up slightly because ...
Dan:                                     19:23                    You say we, you mean the royal We, as in speakers of a language,
Shauna:                               19:26                    all of us who use this language, most of us, I dunno, whatever. Listen, while there may be a word or two different in those different usages, um, throughout the hundred years, uh, the core remains the same. We still have the tip of the iceberg. And a lot of times we do, we do that, we add extra words and we change the idioms. But while one or two words might be different, that core remains the same. And that's definitely the case for tip of the iceberg.
Dan:                                     19:50                    Well, today's show is sponsored by our patrons. According to the Oxford English dictionary since the 13 hundreds, the word patron has meant a person standing in a role of oversight, protection, or sponsorship to another. Patron comes from the Latin word for father, pater, then becoming Patronus, meaning champion or protector, then to patron, meaning one who sponsors something like a patron of the arts. Leonardo DaVinci had patrons like Medici and Cesar Borgia. Bunny trails has similarly awesome patrons, including Pat Rowe and Mary Lopez. If you want to become a patron of bunny trails and get cool perks like access to episodes, behind the scenes content, monthly mini episodes and more, you can visit us on or you can find links to it
Shauna:                               20:43                    In May of 2002 in the magazine, Focus, "Rumours of BSE equivalents in lamb and chicken are just the tip of the dodgy-eating iceberg."
Dan:                                     20:54                    BSE is an infectious disease that, um, is, uh, a prion and is stands for bovine spongiform encephalopathy.
Shauna:                               21:06                    Yeah, SEPA Lofa then a LA pathy.
Dan:                                     21:10                    Yeah, so it's a prion (PRYon)
Shauna:                               21:12                    I thought it was prion (PREon)
Dan:                                     21:13                    Unionized (like the labor union) and unionized (like the physicist term un-ionized) are spelled exactly the same but mean completely different things depending on what field you work in. That's so cool. Maybe prion (PRYon) and prion (PREon) are like that too. I don't know.
Shauna:                               21:23                    Maybe. I find prion (PREon) diseases fascinating.
Dan:                                     21:28                    I prefer to research prion (PRYon) diseases, so it's fine.
Shauna:                               21:31                    Well, fair enough. Also in 2002 is the book How Companies Lie: Why Enron Is Just the Tip of the Iceberg. This was a book by Larry Elliott and Richard Schroth, so, and I didn't add a synopsis because I felt like it was kinda evident what it was, what it was about. So on that one...
Dan:                                     21:50                    Um, hang on. All right. I'm reading the synopsis now and apparently it is about how to make cookies in the shape of buildings.
Shauna:                               22:00                    What?!
Dan:                                     22:00                    No, I'm kidding. Yeah. It's about how companies lie to people. Like Enron did.
Shauna:                               22:05                    Listen, the book covers very intimidating, so you should check it out.
Dan:                                     22:09                    I know people say, and I've probably gone on this rant before, I know they say you can't judge a book by its cover, but that is literally the point of book covers is to allow you to judge it quickly. Like they bring in expert artists to be able to put something on a book cover to help drive people to want to open that book and read about it. You absolutely are supposed to judge a book by its cover.
Dan:                                     22:31                    But don't judge humans by the way they look.
Shauna:                               22:33                    All right. Next up we've got Sam. This is @Samuel_Miller on Twitter who joined Twitter in August of 2009. His about section reads, "Law talking guy. Tweets are not legal advice, but if you thought otherwise legal problems are the tip of the iceberg for you."
Dan:                                     22:54                    That's a fair point.
Shauna:                               22:54                    Well done Sam. In the 2009 electropop song Tip of the Iceberg by Owl City, we find these wonderful lyrics. I'll travel the sub-zero tundra I'll brave glaciers and frozen lakes And that's just the tip of the iceberg I'll do whatever it takes To change
Dan:                                     23:15                    Oh, Oh that took a different, okay. That took a different turn. I thought they were talking about, you know, the like proclaimers you know I walk 500 miles and I'll walk 500 more. I thought they were saying, you know, to be with you and to love, you know, I love whatever. Yeah, and this was just like, man I, I am, I am just a garbage human and I am going to change I promise.
Shauna:                               23:36                    I think it's great. That was again very poetic. I think maybe just using iceberg, like brings out the poet in people, I don't know the imagery, maybe that is what it is. In the article Stephen King Explains When He’ll Retire, this was on Cinema Blend just last week… so mid-September 2019, we find a positive usage of the idiom by author. It says, “Stephen King is on a bit of a tear right now. The prolific author just published his 61st book The Institute and a movie based on his popular 1986 novel IT is currently out in theaters with the title IT Chapter Two and another of his titles Doctor Sleep is on the way to the big screen. And that’s only the tip of the iceberg with his current works.”.
Shauna:                               24:28                    I read that whole quote because I really like Stephen King. So, uh, also I'm gonna say I'm good with this because the man's like almost 72 and he's still writing. So it gives me hope that I may actually finish my own book someday. And also there is still plenty of time for me to read all of his novels. I could keep reading them until I'm 72 and I will probably still not have read all of his books. So I'm like, and I won't have to reread them unless I want to.
Shauna:                               24:57                    Really amazing how often we use some of our idioms without even realizing the place that they have in our language. A friend at work is regularly calling me out on my use of idioms. She listens to our podcast and she's also a big word nerd. Um, she commented on this phrase and she found humor in the fact that we were constantly exaggerating when we're referring to mundane concerns. This is a just kind of a typical thing that people do and in the United States or middle-class folks do anyway. Um, but I find that this one actually works for things on a variety of scales, big or small or things that only seem small,
Dan:                                     25:35                    Oh, right, cause it's the tip of the iceberg and the rest of underwater or whatever.
Shauna:                               25:39                    Uh, but, but honestly, I love watching an idiom change as we're experiencing it. And so this one's really unique in that we are kind of a part of it's, it's growing history.
Dan:                                     25:50                    So the difference between an iceberg and a glacier is that an iceberg is a piece of a glacier that breaks off when temperatures warm up. So if it's floating in the water, it's probably an iceberg. Whereas if it's sitting attached to a bigger, larger thing, it's probably a glacier.
Shauna:                               26:06                    That's cool.
Dan:                                     26:07                    That's a bit of a oversimplification, but ...
Shauna:                               26:09                    Yeah, but I like it. I love science. That about wraps us up for today. Thank you so much for joining us. We'd also like to say thanks to our listeners who've rated us on your favorite podcasting app and left a review. If you haven't had a chance to do that yet, there's still time, or if you've already done this, you can do it again on your second favorite app or your third favorite app or whatever.
Dan:                                     26:32                    Any apps you listen to rate us on, all of them.
Shauna:                               26:35                    Uh, we'd also love for you to share it with your friends. Anybody who might be interested in listening to a fun with words. That's the name of our podcast. But it has fun with words.
Dan:                                     26:46                    I mean it might as well be though cause it is fun with words. It's actually fun with phrases. If you want fun with words, I recommend the Lexitexture Podcast.
Shauna:                               26:53                    We're still on the alliteration though cause fun with phrases is...
Dan:                                     26:58                    Oh Ooh, I like that. Yeah
Shauna:                               27:00                    it's nice. Yeah. So when you're thinking about these people, book lovers or writers or just somebody you know who likes to have a little humor with their word history cause that's all of us, right?
Dan:                                     27:12                    Absolutely. And we would ask that you would go and share the show on Twitter and if you hashtag bunny trails then we will go add you to our list of people to follow. So we will be looking for the #BunnyTrails this week. And for everybody who tweets using that hashtag bunny trails, we will go give you a follow to help boost your numbers. But word of mouth is still the best way to grow a podcast. And posting on Twitter helps considerably, but also telling your friends so your help is greatly appreciated. If you want to join the community and chat more about the show or phrases and their stories in general, you can join the community on Patreon. You'll find the link to that and everything else we do Thanks again for joining us. We'll talk to you again next week. Until then, remember:
Together:                           28:02                    words belong to their users.

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