We used Temi to auto transcribe this, then Dan went through and checked it based on the show notes. He tried really hard on it, but this kind of stuff isn't his specialty. So if you notice anything confusing, please comment on this post so Dan can look at it and clarify anything.
Dan: 00:00 Welcome
to bunny trails, a whimsical adventure videos and are there turns of phrase,
I'm Dan Pugh
Shauna: 00:05 and
I'm Shauna Harrison. Each week we delve into the origin and history of an idiom
or other turn of phrase and discuss how it's been used over time. This week we
celebrated father's Day in the United States and maybe another countries? Uh,
this is a day when we celebrate our dads or dad figures for all of the awesome
things that they do for us. Like feed us, clothe us, provide shelter, give
guidance and all that jazz.
Shauna: 00:35 So
this week I decided to choose a, a fun phrase, which is chip off the old block.
Now Dan being a dad, what are your thoughts on this phrase?
Dan: 00:48 I
have no idea where this phrase would have come from. I'm not sure I've thought
about this particular one for a very long time. And now that you say it, I
guess like wood chip, like maybe like a splinter off of like a bigger piece of
wood? It's kind of, I guess where I would go with the origins of that one. I
mean, I know what it means, but like, I don't know, I have no idea where it
would come from. So I'm very excited to learn.
Shauna: 01:20 From
the Collins Dictionary, "a person who is very similar to one of their
parents in appearance, character or behavior." So unlike many idioms, this
one has a single word in it that is really the crux of the phrase. And that
word is chip.
Shauna: 01:38 Yeah.
At chip is a small and especially thin piece of wood, stone or other materials
separated by hewing cutting or breaking. I'm also defined as a thin fragment,
chopped or broken off.
Shauna: 01:53 Me,
you are not. So unless otherwise specified, it is understood to be wood made of
wood. Um, and to mean those made by the woodcutter and carpenter in the course
of their work. So we first saw the use of the word chip around 1330 by Robert
Mannyng a, he's an English chronicler and Gilbertine monk. And this was in
Mannyng's chronicle. He states that "What hews over his head, the chip
falls in his eye". <Þat hewis ouer his heued, þe chip falles in his
ine.> If you go chop and stuff above your head then than pieces of it are
going to fall in your eye.
Dan: 02:30 Yes.
I think, was it a Michelangelo, like partially blinded from painting the
Sistine Chapel when things fell into his eyes because he was laying on his back
or is that,
Shauna: 02:40 wow,
I've never heard that. But that's a fascinating thing that now I'm going to
have to look up.
Dan: 02:44 Yes.
I Dunno. I suddenly, as I was saying it, I suddenly realized I have heard this,
but now have done absolutely no independent verification. So...
Shauna: 02:52 I
do know that he was paid to paint it and then, uh, there were, uh, there was a,
a church guy who didn't think that, that it was very polite and so he followed
around and painted little underwear on the cherubs. Ah,
Dan: 03:08 I
did not know that, but that's very interesting. Yeah. Not to get too far down
this bunny trail, but then that also makes me think of that one painting that
was going to be restored and the lady painted the picture of Jesus and it
looked like a three year old had done it because the way she had restored it
just looked like... awful
Shauna: 03:27 "Chips"
first figurative use was around 1542 in the collected poems of Sir Thomas
Wyatt, "a chip of chance, more than a pound of wit". The figurative
use of the word continued to grow and change. Uh, but it helped us get to chip
off the old block. So originally our idiom used the word "of" rather
than "off".
Shauna: 04:01 Yes.
The Oxford English dictionary gives us Chip Of The Same Block and this is
"a person or thing derived from the same source or parentage". And
then also Chip Of The Old Block, "one that resembles his father or
reproduces the family characteristics". This is also applied to things and
now frequently we hear chip off the old block.
Dan: 04:21 So
this would be one of those, uh, also chip off the old block would be similar
in, not necessarily origin, but in meaning to 'the apple doesn't fall from far
from the tree'.
Shauna: 04:34 I
kinda like that one. Um, but sometimes it's used negatively and so I didn't, I
didn't want that. I wanted something positive.
Shauna: 04:42 Yeah.
The first time we see our phrase chip, well Chip Of The Old Block attested in
literature is in 1627 from Robert Sanderson's Twelve Sermons Preached. And in
sermon one we find, "Am not I a child of the same Adam, a chip of the same
block with him?" In 1751, Tobias Smollett in The Adventures of Peregrine
Pickle, which I've referenced before and I just feel like now I need to read
this because it's such a good name,
Shauna: 05:18 Yeah.
I've not a clue. Uh, our quote is "A true chip of the old venereal block
his father."
Dan: 05:26 I
think venereal meant, Um, something different in 1751 then we jokingly like to
use it as now. Well, it's probably the same root still, but it is definitely
transformed these days.
Shauna: 05:43 In
the gazette of the United States, in Philadelphia daily advertiser, and this is
out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Um, we're looking at the May 24th, 1798
edition "by Heaven. It shall not be said that the Americans have 76 were
succeeded by a submissive and degenerative race. That teemly surrendered up the
liberties and independence of their country without even a struggle. There are
too many chips of the old block left to allow this to be said with truth."
Dan: 06:15 I,
uh, yeah, it said 76 and I was like, do they mean 1776? But then I was like, Oh
yeah, you did say that this was 1798. Of course they did mean 1776. Yeah.
Shauna: 06:26 Yeah.
Which actually I thought that was interesting because you know, we've used that
a lot and you know, the people say nineties or 91 or something like that and
just assume that everyone knows, we mean 1990s but they were doing it back then
too in the 1700s and it's just referring to the decade in 1833 Albany
Fonblanque. I can't say this name.
Shauna: 07:04 <Albany
Fonblanque> England Under Seven Administrations, "The crab is, it's
mother's child. A chip of the old block." I don't know if being a crab
crab, the crab is its mother's child. I don't know if that's an insult or a
compliment on that one.
Dan: 07:24 I
think that, that there's nothing wrong with being a crab if you're talking
about the like Marine Crustacean... I almost said animal, but then I'm like,
now I'm suddenly unsure. What is an animal on what's not an animal.
Dan: 07:43 Suddenly
I don't even know what animals are anymore, so I'm just like, Ooh, let's, I
slowly backed away from that and got myself stuck in a really hard spot. So if
it's not a crustacean, sorry, it's got it. It's got a shell. Right. I don't
think being a crab is bad. It's being crabby. That's bad.
Shauna: 07:59 We
see this usage again in the October 22nd, 1845 issue of the Richmond Palladium
out of Richmond, Indiana. The story, the young rebel at tale of the Carolinas
was originally published by the Ladies National Magazine in August of that
year. And here's a quote from that story. "I almost called you a coward,
son David. Said his father to him when they met. But you are a chip of the old
block and I did you wrong. Deborah, he is a boy to be proud of. Is he not?
Dan: 08:31 I
don't think I understand what he was trying to say there. I thought he was
saying bad things, but now he's saying good things.
Shauna: 08:39 Yeah,
well I read enough of the story to find out that at least by this point, the
dad was proud of his son, but more like proud of him for finally doing the
thing that he thought he should have done, which was join the military force
and you know, but his son hadn't done that to this point. Oh, I see. Yeah.
Yeah.
Dan: 08:57 But
here it is, uh, still in 1845 where they're saying chip OF the old block.
Interesting.
Shauna: 09:05 In
the January 8th, 1889 briefs in the Salt Lake Herald out of Utah, we find mini
news update section. And this one "said chip o' the old block, drew a good
house last evening and the company fully sustained to their reputation as fun
producers."
Shauna: 09:28 Right.
And that was like the business name, right. In 1929, Herbert earnest Bates in
his short stories, Seven Tales And Alexander, "he's my son and he's a chip
off the old block and I'm proud of him".
Dan: 09:44 So
this is, this is off now in 1929 so we see it in the late 18 hundreds as of the
old block or o' the old block, but in the early 19 hundreds we're seeing it as
off the old block.
Dan: 09:59 Today's
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Shauna: 10:36 The
movie chip off the old block released in 1944 it started Donald O'Connor, Peggy
Ryan and Anne Blythe, "the son of a strict navy officer falls for the
daughter of a musical comedy star." Sounds like a good, good 1940s movie.
There a chip off the old block is a 2009 television drama from Hong Kong.
"A Chip Off the Old Block tells the story of the articulate businessman Chor
Chi, who accidentally travels back in time to the 1960s and meets his younger
father, Chor Fan."
Dan: 11:13 It's
um, it's interesting that makes me think of the movie Frequency where the guy
goes back in time sort of, there's an aura borealis and it did some weird
things so that he could communicate via CB with his father who had died, who
was a firefighter and died in the line of duty.
Dan: 11:35 And
then, but then like there was also like a serial killer thing and it is, uh,
then his mother ends up getting... I don't want to spoil too much... But then
like, so they, he, you know, changes, do this conversation with his dad,
changes the course of fate and then every time he changes something, like he's
the only one that remembers it. And like everything just swirls and changes
around him and it's very interesting. But anyway, it was a good movie. I liked
it. I remember like the 90s movie,
Shauna: 12:22 A
plucky pebble shows true grit as he travels the country, trying to find out if
he fits in with any of his famous rock formation relatives.
Shauna: 12:37 Rocky
comes from a long line of rock stars! Uncle Gibraltar, Aunt Etna, and
Great-Grandma Half Dome are just some of the legendary rock formations he calls
family. It's no wonder he wants to matter in a big way too--but it's not easy
trying to get a foothold. Rocky gets tossed by The Wave and driven away at
Devil's Tower--but he's determined not to allow these pitfalls to chip away at
his confidence. Rather than feeling crushed, he keeps on rolling, hoping to
become the rock-star he knows he's meant to be.
Shauna: 13:17 Yeah,
it's a children's book. I mean it looks kind of like just a picture almost
board book. So that's some serious punning going on in a little bit of space
there. So clearly this is an idiom that's not going anywhere anytime soon. In
addition to the mini books and movies and TV shows, it gets a lot of play by
just everyday people @JadeGemAqua shared on Twitter "a chip off the old
block, a baby hawk inherits Mama's beauty" and has some real sweet
pictures of a baby hawk.
Shauna: 13:52 I
mean pictures only a mother would love. There is a really lovely tweet by
!RyanMacDonald_6, the second week of June this year he shared a few photos of
him and his son and he said another proud dad moment, Ryan and his Hillwood
teammates one there, Griffin... Giffnock tournament, a worldly winner and goes
on. And then uh, this was, that post was retweeted by at Monica series of
numbers with the quote. Wow. Onpoint Emoji. Smiley face Emoji. Soccer Ball
Emoji. Well Done Ryan. A chip off the old block party. More emojis. Very happy
is what's going on here. But altogether it was really sweet. And then maybe my
favorite recent tweet is from @CharlieMilligan who shared a photo of an elderly
gentleman, gentleman finishing off a bottle of Campo Veijo Rojo and the caption
read chip off the old block and laughy Emoji Hashtag red wine and hashtag
cheese and Hashtag that's my old man.
Shauna: 15:04 This
phrase in genders, a sense of familiarity with the subject. So I think it has a
way of bringing people into this story or the conversation and making everyone
feel like they're a part of the in-group. Uh, for the most part people are
using it to acknowledge and highlight the positive attributes that a parent has
passed on to their child. And I think those are some of the best traditions,
like the intangibles that are passed from one generation to the next, like
kindness and compassion, grit and hard work and a deep appreciation for wine.
And these are the most important things that we can pass on.
Shauna: 15:41 Well,
that about wraps this up for today. Thanks so much for joining us. If you
haven't already, take a moment to go to your podcasting App and rate us. Spread
the love to your fellow word nerds by letting them know how much you enjoy the
show. If you have a suggestion for an idiom or other turn of phrase, or you
just want to chat, you can catch us on Twitter and Instagram and occasionally
even Facebook all @BunnyTrailsPod or you can get links to everything we do at
www.bunnytrailspod.com
Dan: 16:07 This
week we want you to go check out our Patreon page,
www.patreon.com/bunnytrailspod. You'll get direct access to talk with the two
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and the Sistine Chapel and the things we learned after we recorded this
episode.
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